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I saw this thread a long time ago when there wansn't that many posts..

The posts are beginning to make me wonder though about modifying our FAQ entry somehow.

The reasons - as pointed out by others.

1)        Most people who really want to learn taxonomy are going to obtain materials and equipment (microscope). As well as identification guides. Looking up obscure papers is daunting even for me - pretty much Ph.D. in Physics. If I have to go that far - then it's best to send specimens..

2) The wide majority of people just are not capable or interested in making the observations required. Just to get basic information out of them (I mean how many people look for the petiole/waist?? Which is first question I generally ask people now). What this is telling me is that for this class of people the only thing to do is to say - get some specimens and send them here along with XX $$ and we will send back a identification report..

Which also makes me think - DrAnt might you be interested in doing this? We can figure out some reasonable price and tell people specimens won't be returned - only a identification report - and tell them how to collect specimens to send?? (I can work up a page on this if needed. More ideas on this below - which might be a better solution which could include DrAnt or other and ID experts).

3) For people inbetween these extremes who are knowledgable, hobbiests, teachers etc. I think best would be to put up a very general Identification guide which takes people to the Family and maybe Subfamily level (all over the world if possible - unless there is confusion). Included in this guide would be really good pictures to the most common species in the famlies.. Basically this guide also has to have a decent anatomy guide online as well as only enough of the taxonomy and information to get to the family, or subfamily..

The reasons: I'm starting to think we really need to completely change the way we are dealing with people who want to know ID's. We have to make it clear to people the following:

1)        Definitive ID to the Genus/Species level (hope I'm using those terms right - as I still have a lot to learn about nomeclature about all of this!!) is basically only for experts with proper tools, information and experience at their disposal. A novice, hobbiest, nor the layfolk are going to be able to do this (at least not to convince those at this level of skill). It should be pointed out I expect there are even debates among experts about ID of specimens (which is only interesting to the experts). All of this says - if you want to know what species - then really the only way to know definitively is to send specimens off to a expert!
Simple as that!

2)        Now if you are just interested in generally about the ants (i.e. Family and perhaps subfamily) and need enough of a ID to figure out how to care for or exterminate them or to satisfy general curiousity and are competent and interested enough to follow a online guide to doing this. Then we can give procedure at a URLs.

Insert definitive list of requirements which are needed. DrAnts list is good first start. I would also include materials - ruler which measures in centimeters, specimens, magnifying glass which does at least Nx magnification, etc. and then go to this URL..

The URL would be very much like the Midwest Guide one but should have much of the language simplified. First for simple family identification, then subfamily. All technical terms should be defined - the work in essence complete in itself.. Also the front page of such a URL would have again a copy of the goals and requirements for successful use.. So people can know what info to expect to get - how to use it. And particularly NOT to bother others with requests on this matter if they can't even use this simple guide.

Finally for those who do not have the means, skill, or desire there should be the simple solution. For those who don't care to learn about this stuff - don't even bother to ask those of us in the field to help you ID as the whole thing becomes a huge waste of time. I don't know how one can say this. But basically IMHO we really need a kind way to say to people. To realize and admit where they just arn't knowledgable and that their lack of 'capability' in conjunction with their desire to utilize those of us with moderate (or worse the few with expert) skills and abilites with regards to ID is not a productive use of everyones time..

The solution to this being a simple one. Just send X$$ off to one of these addresses - and in N time you will recieve a report with the Identification of the species. Heck we should tier this as well. I for one would be happy to offer identification services to the Family or SubFamily level for less $$. The experts rightly should get a bit more - or at least be shielded from the onslaught of ID requests of the same boring common species.. Basically those of us which get specimens which are rare or interesting to the experts then we can funnel them on..

Anyway. Just a few thoughts and indeed something which has been bugging me (chuckle) as well as the reason for the now DEEP desire to improve my identification skills..

It's like we need to first make a definitive statement to the masses regarding this issue. Secondly if necessary individually or collectively work on Family identification (I'm going to take another look at the Midwest ID guide), then Subfamily (if possible), leaving the actual Genus/Species left to the anointed experts..

I personally think this would be a pretty good opportunity for us hobbiests to make a few $$, and provide a invaluable service, as well as ease the load of ID requests on us all!! In the same vein those of us who want to learn will have good encouragement and means to do so..

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe people will say $$ - what?? I don't want to pay blah, blah, blah.. But dang it DrAnt has graciously offered to ID ants that I'd send him. And while I think I have ID's I do want confirmation. Is it not worth a moderate amount of $$ to compensate him for his time in doing this service for me?? And the same perhaps for me doing others?? Gratitude comes in many forms and for DrAnts time I am probably a minority but I feel obligated to him for it! Specially when it's focussed specifically on me and not just everyone in general!

Because of the net there are a lot of people online now who give a massive amount of their own 'life energy' to help others interested in the field of their expertise with their expertise. Would it not be prudent to endeavor to utilize the amount their time as efficiently as possible?? As well as potentially structure kinds of rewards so that there is the possiblitity that their availabilty might be increased?? Or at least their own time utilized more efficiently??

Just a few thoughts on this whole thing.. I still consider myself a huge novice in this field. But I can say that I would be happy (because I'm a novice) to work with at least one (or more if needed) experts to develop a kind of IDing source which is tiered with respect to the kinds of ID info one can get based on the level of expertise or 'self education' and information the ID'r is able or willing to provide.. Because I still consider myself a novice in IDing ants but a cracking and able webdesigner (I have access to copy editor to clean up my admittedly sloppy language skills) I would be happy to start plodding along on such a thing for the novices first. Then as my skill level improves perhaps to the hobbiest level (though Midwest guide may cover that fairly well - will paw when I have time).

I really would like to get some thoughts from everyone on the above ideas. As I think a number of us out here are absolutely going nuts about ID requests. Just as I'm starting to get a bit nuts about people asking same stuff about Ant Farming which is ironically taking eating much of my time to work on my "Step-by Step How To Guide to Ant Farming". Which I want to get done just to try to eliminate all the basic questions I keep getting asked - over and OVER and OVER again..

The thought is that for whatever reason the organization of information on the net is poor at best and we absolutely have to start creating some really decent definitive resources to add to the collective e-brain of us all.. The best solution is to do this in a way that those who provide are actually rewarded based on the importance of the information etc.. So they are encouraged to do more.. This whole idea about the net being free I think is a huge fallacy - particulary for those of us endeavoring to provide services, information, etc. To us this net damn well is NOT FREE - it costs us at best only life energy which is our time. At worst actual $$ and additional life energy to manifest those $$ and I for one would like it if people started to recognize this. Even better to find a way to recognize this directly.

Long ago I used to think donations would work
(see the now very old www.channelu.com/Mission.html) This was a great idea. But in practice it seems if people can get a free lunch they will. Admittedly there are some who do indeed understand this - I have recieved some donations - and some purchases I'm sure are given in this way. But I'm now finding that the few people who absolutely thieve off the net (I'm not going to go into this) as well as everyone who takes the hard work for granted to all be responsible for what I forsee will be the next change in the net (there will always be free stuff - but it will start to be less and less).

Why? Simply because the providers of such services, info, have to at least breakeven.. And I know a lot of us are having the most terrifically hard time doing just that.. Which is why I've commented in other places on this whole issue of using 'free net resources'. Even this message board isn't free (donations are now supporting it) but what if even with this level of donations the company which is running this site goes away?? What then??

Anyway - hope this doesn't sound like a tirade - but all of it has been on my mind as of late. This whole issue of where is this wonder called the internet going to turn into. And frankly I think it'll be a damn shame if only the rich get to use it and the poor are left with the scaps. But so far I really don't have a solution. I have ideas but ideas are only mine - I'm not sure the world even recognizes any kind of a problem or issue yet. My prediction is that in next couple years the character and nature of the web is going to change fairly dramatically. Either that or some other kind of solution to the 'revenue' problem will be found either collectively or individually..

Randy Rencsok aka MrAnt
WebManifestor www.antcam.com