I'm New to Ant Farms - Advice please in Keeping Ants Forum

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I'm New to Ant Farms - Advice please

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Chuck		#21	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1021 09/29/2009 9:30 PM	Jamesdavid3 wrote: dont underestimate the power of the darkside.. seriously.. nothing will spread in the UK... Ok i can understand if you were some kind of special ANT breeder having all kinds of Ants in your home and they get loose. but afew colonies wont do anything here. Looks like my hunch was correct. I hope everyone that reads this can better understand why I think it is so risky to allow trade of ants. I don't want to hear any crying when someone with this type of attitude introduces next invasive species into Europe. If they do it here in States at least they have broken enough laws that they should end up in jail for awhile. I almost forgot, James the UK already has non-native invasive species living there. While it wasn't from the exotic pet trade in the past, nothing prevents careless ant keepers from introducing the next one no matter the size of their collection or the weather outside.
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Jamesdavid3		#22	[url]	[-]
Young Worker Ant Posts: 25 09/30/2009 3:47 AM	At the end of the day this country would be better with a few more different ants knocking about. It would almost spice things up abit. And theres no Ants to be seen anywhere from September to May because of our stupid unpredictable weather. So having the extra Ant roaming about in those months shouldnt do anything at all.
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Antimidation		#23	[url]	[-]
Loyal Worker Ant Posts: 802 09/30/2009 6:36 AM	Jamesdavid3 wrote: At the end of the day this country would be better with a few more different ants knocking about. It would almost spice things up abit. And theres no Ants to be seen anywhere from September to May because of our stupid unpredictable weather. So having the extra Ant roaming about in those months shouldnt do anything at all. James I think there are other things you should consider before you just assume U.K. weather is going to prevent a non native species from taking over. I can even give you examples. California is where I live and the weather gets really damn hot but this is not a tropical state by any means, we have a lot of micro environments and tons of different altitudes, we have mountains with snow, bone dry desert, thick Pine forests, and moderate foothills. But that didn't stop a tropical ant from taking over nearly everywhere there is residential sprawl, in fact these ants can only survive where people are and they have done massive amounts of damage to the micro ecosystems as well as be one of the biggest pest species in the United States, the Argentine Ant. To go off and say "oh well i don't know enough about ants or would even think releasing them would do anything to my country" is exactly why there are invasive species, though, most have been displaced without knowledge from commerce and shipping from country to country. Again....because ants are small doesn't make them unimportant, quite the contrary...it's estimated that if we weigh ants against all humans on earth they would nearly weigh the same. Interesting when you think about it.....Ants will not know they are taking over or being pests, they will just live and in a controlled environment (maybe your house) they will adapt and survive, that's what they do. Formidable Formica!
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antscanada		#24	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1686 09/30/2009 6:38 AM	Hello James, and welcome to the forum. Let me be the one to tell you nicely that I believe the others who share opposing beliefs are concerned mainly because of the potential for invasive species to displace or completely annihilate other ant species (and hence possibly non-ant species) that may be native to the area, not because they don't want another ant species existing around. They fear the worst case potentiality, not those instances where an introduced species have been able to ecologically blend so to speak. In the worst case situation, these opposing folks feel that one new species of ant could completely upset and destroy an entire ecosystem (as grave as that sounds)... just thought I'd clarify their side. It's a fair stance, and I'm sure you can at least understand where their sentiment comes from as many of them have experienced in some form or another the loss or displacement of a native species due to an introduced species (though not through alleged irresponsible ant-keeping per se, but through unknowing transplantation via other larger human activities). Having said that, one thing you will learn about these boards is that you will be knocked for having that opinion. A lot of people here simply are against ant-keeping of alien species because of its "potential" negative outcome if the stars align and an introduction is somehow successful, and unfortunately posts from those who feel ant-keeping of foreign species isn't as big a danger aren't welcomed warmly around here (I also learned this the hard way) because they feel it breeds more ignorance, so just be prepared to be target practice if you continue a conversation like this lol. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. I also have my opinions on the topic but have learned to zip up (and deleted any posts I made in the past on the issue), because it causes trouble Sad, actually, that there can't be proper debate without people taking things personally or discuss with an open mind... So is human life, though! Welcome to the boards, James! There are a lot of wonderful and helpful people around here that all share your love for ants. Look around as these boards are a huge wealth of knowledge, the best online in my opinion (Antdude rules)! *AntsCanada.com - Taking the antfarm and love of ant keeping to a whole new level!* Subscribe to The AntsCanada Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/antscanada and AntsCanada Tutorial Video Archive Follow AntsCanada on Twitter: www.twitter.com/antscanada Edited 5 times by antscanada 09/30/2009 6:51 AM.
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Martin Thrane		#25	[url]	[-]
Minor Worker Ant Posts: 169 09/30/2009 7:14 AM	Humans seek to control nature, like any species seeks to control it's habitat to it's own benefit, but the inventions of man has made him capable of dominating (or that is: trying to dominate) huge ecosystems, with disastrous consequences to follow for nature as a whole. Sadly, only the most visible damage is taken seriously. So in the US RIFA comes in and takes over - importing ant queens is made illegal. Everyone can see how those pesky ants drive everything else away and sting our kids. But companies filling our food and soil and water with cancerous poisons, either to make the candy look more appealing or just to bury chemical waste in nature to spare a few hundred thousand dollars, are given almost free hands. Or high levels of trans fat, which makes people extremely overweight, and causes circulatory system problems leading to heart attacks and death. Today, more than 50% of Americans are overweight.. No one dares to, or is able to make the multi-billion dollar (mostly fast)food industry more humane and less dangerous to buy products from. Eric Schiller is the only author of a fast-food and food industry critic book not to be sued in the US, ever. I know this forum is about ants, but quite frankly, I believe that the world has bigger problems than ants competing with other ants because of human interference.. The prohibitions should be on dangerous chemicals and low morale on behalf of industrial production as a whole, and not on "who can live where, if you are an ant". Furthermore, I too believe, that this discussion is both relevant and necessary. Stigmatizing ones political opponents is not fair game in my opinion, and not the very least democratic or constructive.
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Chuck		#26	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1021 09/30/2009 12:58 PM	Regardless of how you feel on the exotic pet trade I thought everyone would agree with me that attitude expressed in his post are dangerous. I wasn't trying to start another discussion on the exotic pet trade, I know it is pointless expect anyone to change their minds. I foolishly thought someone else may have the magic words it would take to make James realise how dangerous it is to introduce any new species into an ecosystem. I thought the debate over the exotic pet trade (ants in particular) was about the risk of introduction, not how many species we should introduce. I thought history was full enough of introduced species that have destroyed or severely altered entire ecosystems for everyone to agree it is not a good thing to do. I thought someone that disagreed with me about the ant trade might read his post and better understand why I feel it is so risky. Jamesdavid3 wrote: Well the Weather is ALWAYS so bad in the UK it wont matter anyway. Any exotic Ants wont survive here outside AT ALL... I think people dont understand this which gets them worried if they escape into garden and spread.. they wont spead.. they will die.. Jamesdavid3 wrote: seriously.. nothing will spread in the UK... Ok i can understand if you were some kind of special ANT breeder having all kinds of Ants in your home and they get loose. but afew colonies wont do anything here. Jamesdavid3 wrote: At the end of the day this country would be better with a few more different ants knocking about. It would almost spice things up abit. And theres no Ants to be seen anywhere from September to May because of our stupid unpredictable weather. So having the extra Ant roaming about in those months shouldnt do anything at all. Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see how anyone could read the views expressed in his post and not see how they will lead to the introduction of more invasive species. Like I tried to say before I don't care what you guys do in Europe with your exotic pet trade. I just didn't think the point was to see how many exotic species you could get established over there.
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antscanada		#27	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1686 09/30/2009 1:11 PM	Totally hear you, Chuck, and obviously respect your stance greatly and respect why you feel the way you do about posts like James. I should make it clear that I am not knocking you, and obviously consider you somewhat of an ant buddy on here. The only thing I wonder about is that people who feel as strongly as you do, who fear based on theory the possibility of upsetting an ecological balance by introducing a new species as pervasive as the ant, don't bring up issues like the widespread use of crickets in the pet trade. Acheta domestica is also a foreign insect in these parts of the world, originally a pest in Europe. It is an obligate herbivore so theoretically it exists at the same if not at a lower trophic level than ants, theoretically meaning it has the potential to cause greater ecological upset. Some may say that it would be impossible for the species of crickets to establish themselves on this side of the planet, or even outside flour factories, but then that's speculation as much as people who feel like exotic species of ants can't establish in places with temperate climates. You can't be 100% sure right? The thing about crickets is, we actively breed them (unlike ants) and in humongous numbers. Why don't people have a problem with these European natives in the same way that people seem to have a problem with foreign ants? How about the originally tropical Zoophobas species, also known in the pet trade as Superworms? Why don't people worry about those insects proliferating? The foreign ant debate just seems a little double standard to me, among other things. That's all. *AntsCanada.com - Taking the antfarm and love of ant keeping to a whole new level!* Subscribe to The AntsCanada Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/antscanada and AntsCanada Tutorial Video Archive Follow AntsCanada on Twitter: www.twitter.com/antscanada Edited 6 times by antscanada 09/30/2009 1:31 PM.
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antscanada		#28	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1686 10/01/2009 8:13 PM	Does anyone have a response to my query? Looking forward to some insight on the matter. Perhaps I should repost in the Consequences of Keeping Exotics Thread...? *AntsCanada.com - Taking the antfarm and love of ant keeping to a whole new level!* Subscribe to The AntsCanada Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/antscanada and AntsCanada Tutorial Video Archive Follow AntsCanada on Twitter: www.twitter.com/antscanada
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Antimidation		#29	[url]	[-]
Loyal Worker Ant Posts: 802 10/02/2009 7:25 AM	Martin Thrane wrote: Humans seek to control nature, like any species seeks to control it's habitat to it's own benefit, but the inventions of man has made him capable of dominating (or that is: trying to dominate) huge ecosystems, with disastrous consequences to follow for nature as a whole. Sadly, only the most visible damage is taken seriously. So in the US RIFA comes in and takes over - importing ant queens is made illegal. Everyone can see how those pesky ants drive everything else away and sting our kids. But companies filling our food and soil and water with cancerous poisons, either to make the candy look more appealing or just to bury chemical waste in nature to spare a few hundred thousand dollars, are given almost free hands. Or high levels of trans fat, which makes people extremely overweight, and causes circulatory system problems leading to heart attacks and death. Today, more than 50% of Americans are overweight.. No one dares to, or is able to make the multi-billion dollar (mostly fast)food industry more humane and less dangerous to buy products from. Eric Schiller is the only author of a fast-food and food industry critic book not to be sued in the US, ever. I know this forum is about ants, but quite frankly, I believe that the world has bigger problems than ants competing with other ants because of human interference.. The prohibitions should be on dangerous chemicals and low morale on behalf of industrial production as a whole, and not on "who can live where, if you are an ant". Furthermore, I too believe, that this discussion is both relevant and necessary. Stigmatizing ones political opponents is not fair game in my opinion, and not the very least democratic or constructive. Your right, this is an ant forum, and as much as you think the comments you made are relevant and necessary I would agree....I guess the point I am making here, is why add to the "crap" pile of problems all over the world with new ones? Such as the "ant" topic i discussed? I guess as an individual Martin, you have a good idea of what's not good and what to avoid, that said....odds are you are not the only one out there aware of these things. In fact I hear a lot of problems going on in the world...I am concerned with many things, one of them being our environment as a whole we only have one earth and we all live here, no place to run if we mess that up. Your right, humans do try and control everything, but we also have the means to save things if they need saving, we can reverse some things as well...we can prevent, no other species on earth can lay claim to that. I just think it's important to point out the advancements we are making to improve the quality of life, like alternate fuels, greener lighting, greener power sources, everywhere you look you see it...you can't tell me you have not seen these changes. It's really easy to get caught up in the negatives of life...I say we should look at what we're doing that's positive as well. As far as fast food chains go - I say, just don't eat at fast food restaurants, we all have choices. There are definitely healthier choices. Formidable Formica!
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Chuck		#30	[url]	[-]
Henchant Posts: 1021 10/02/2009 11:57 PM	I wasn't trying to turn this guy's thread into the second debate thread on exotic pet trade. For all the arguing on both sides of the issue, to me it boils down to the amount of risk you are willing to take. There are tons of cases where non-native species have been introduced either intentionally or accidentally with disastrous effects on the native ecosystem. With all of these examples I just figured everyone was in agreement that is was not a good idea to release non-native ants, crickets, birds, fish, ect... into the environment. I've yet to see the post from someone arguing that the exotic pet trade was great because it could spread invasive species around the world. Here is a kid saying publicly that he could dump any ants he wanted to in his garden and they wouldn't survive because the weather in England sucks. If they did some how survive so what, England needs a few more ant species anyways. I did not think this was commonly held belief by those in favor of the exotic pet trade. I'm beginning to get the feeling I'm wrong about that. All I was looking for someone from the other side of the issue to tell him, "Dude, I love buying ants, but it isn't cool to turn them loose into the wild." I wasn't trying to tell him not to buy ants, eat fast food or anything other than don't turn the ants you buy loose in your garden. I suppose my comments about the lack of instructions are what threw everyone off. AntsCanada or anyone else that wants my 2 cents on the issue: I edited my orgianl post in the Consequences of rearing of exotic ants species topic. Edit: I almost forgot: AntsCanada don't worry, just because we disagree doesn't mean I like you any less. I too would love to have a leaf-cutter setup like they do at the Cincinnati Zoo. I have no doubt in my mind that I could responsible handle them now. I just don't trust everyone would be so responsible, including myself when I was younger. So until the world becomes perfect, I'll have to settle for seeing them at the Zoo. Edited 4 times by Chuck 10/03/2009 12:30 AM.
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