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Posts: 1021
09/29/2009 9:30 PM
Jamesdavid3 wrote: dont underestimate the power of the darkside.. seriously.. nothing will spread in the UK... Ok i can understand if you were some kind of special ANT breeder having all kinds of Ants in your home and they get loose. but afew colonies wont do anything here.
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Posts: 25
09/30/2009 3:47 AM
Posts: 802
09/30/2009 6:36 AM
Jamesdavid3 wrote: At the end of the day this country would be better with a few more different ants knocking about. It would almost spice things up abit. And theres no Ants to be seen anywhere from September to May because of our stupid unpredictable weather. So having the extra Ant roaming about in those months shouldnt do anything at all.
Posts: 1686
09/30/2009 6:38 AM
Having said that, one thing you will learn about these boards is that you will be knocked for having that opinion. A lot of people here simply are against ant-keeping of alien species because of its "potential" negative outcome if the stars align and an introduction is somehow successful, and unfortunately posts from those who feel ant-keeping of foreign species isn't as big a danger aren't welcomed warmly around here (I also learned this the hard way) because they feel it breeds more ignorance, so just be prepared to be target practice if you continue a conversation like this lol.
Just thought I'd give you a heads up. I also have my opinions on the topic but have learned to zip up (and deleted any posts I made in the past on the issue), because it causes trouble Sad, actually, that there can't be proper debate without people taking things personally or discuss with an open mind... So is human life, though! Welcome to the boards, James! There are a lot of wonderful and helpful people around here that all share your love for ants. Look around as these boards are a huge wealth of knowledge, the best online in my opinion (Antdude rules)!
Posts: 169
09/30/2009 7:14 AM
09/30/2009 12:58 PM
Jamesdavid3 wrote: Well the Weather is ALWAYS so bad in the UK it wont matter anyway. Any exotic Ants wont survive here outside AT ALL... I think people dont understand this which gets them worried if they escape into garden and spread.. they wont spead.. they will die..
Jamesdavid3 wrote: seriously.. nothing will spread in the UK... Ok i can understand if you were some kind of special ANT breeder having all kinds of Ants in your home and they get loose. but afew colonies wont do anything here.
09/30/2009 1:11 PM
The only thing I wonder about is that people who feel as strongly as you do, who fear based on theory the possibility of upsetting an ecological balance by introducing a new species as pervasive as the ant, don't bring up issues like the widespread use of crickets in the pet trade.
Acheta domestica is also a foreign insect in these parts of the world, originally a pest in Europe. It is an obligate herbivore so theoretically it exists at the same if not at a lower trophic level than ants, theoretically meaning it has the potential to cause greater ecological upset. Some may say that it would be impossible for the species of crickets to establish themselves on this side of the planet, or even outside flour factories, but then that's speculation as much as people who feel like exotic species of ants can't establish in places with temperate climates. You can't be 100% sure right? The thing about crickets is, we actively breed them (unlike ants) and in humongous numbers. Why don't people have a problem with these European natives in the same way that people seem to have a problem with foreign ants? How about the originally tropical Zoophobas species, also known in the pet trade as Superworms? Why don't people worry about those insects proliferating? The foreign ant debate just seems a little double standard to me, among other things. That's all.
10/01/2009 8:13 PM
10/02/2009 7:25 AM
Martin Thrane wrote: Humans seek to control nature, like any species seeks to control it's habitat to it's own benefit, but the inventions of man has made him capable of dominating (or that is: trying to dominate) huge ecosystems, with disastrous consequences to follow for nature as a whole. Sadly, only the most visible damage is taken seriously. So in the US RIFA comes in and takes over - importing ant queens is made illegal. Everyone can see how those pesky ants drive everything else away and sting our kids. But companies filling our food and soil and water with cancerous poisons, either to make the candy look more appealing or just to bury chemical waste in nature to spare a few hundred thousand dollars, are given almost free hands. Or high levels of trans fat, which makes people extremely overweight, and causes circulatory system problems leading to heart attacks and death. Today, more than 50% of Americans are overweight.. No one dares to, or is able to make the multi-billion dollar (mostly fast)food industry more humane and less dangerous to buy products from. Eric Schiller is the only author of a fast-food and food industry critic book not to be sued in the US, ever. I know this forum is about ants, but quite frankly, I believe that the world has bigger problems than ants competing with other ants because of human interference.. The prohibitions should be on dangerous chemicals and low morale on behalf of industrial production as a whole, and not on "who can live where, if you are an ant". Furthermore, I too believe, that this discussion is both relevant and necessary. Stigmatizing ones political opponents is not fair game in my opinion, and not the very least democratic or constructive.
10/02/2009 11:57 PM
I wasn't trying to turn this guy's thread into the second debate thread on exotic pet trade. For all the arguing on both sides of the issue, to me it boils down to the amount of risk you are willing to take. There are tons of cases where non-native species have been introduced either intentionally or accidentally with disastrous effects on the native ecosystem. With all of these examples I just figured everyone was in agreement that is was not a good idea to release non-native ants, crickets, birds, fish, ect... into the environment. I've yet to see the post from someone arguing that the exotic pet trade was great because it could spread invasive species around the world. Here is a kid saying publicly that he could dump any ants he wanted to in his garden and they wouldn't survive because the weather in England sucks. If they did some how survive so what, England needs a few more ant species anyways. I did not think this was commonly held belief by those in favor of the exotic pet trade. I'm beginning to get the feeling I'm wrong about that. All I was looking for someone from the other side of the issue to tell him, "Dude, I love buying ants, but it isn't cool to turn them loose into the wild." I wasn't trying to tell him not to buy ants, eat fast food or anything other than don't turn the ants you buy loose in your garden. I suppose my comments about the lack of instructions are what threw everyone off. AntsCanada or anyone else that wants my 2 cents on the issue: I edited my orgianl post in the Consequences of rearing of exotic ants species topic. Edit: I almost forgot: AntsCanada don't worry, just because we disagree doesn't mean I like you any less. I too would love to have a leaf-cutter setup like they do at the Cincinnati Zoo. I have no doubt in my mind that I could responsible handle them now. I just don't trust everyone would be so responsible, including myself when I was younger. So until the world becomes perfect, I'll have to settle for seeing them at the Zoo.
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